#30 Jake and I Talk About Music, the Internet, and My Eulogy

 
Jake 181108.jpg
 
My artistic hero Ingmar Bergman, a film director actually, once asked … what is music?
— Jake

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My friend and old college roommate Jake comes on Prairie Goth to talk about music, the internet, and the place that the art form holds in our society. He asks me about my experiences as a creator and listener of music, and we discuss the changing landscape of musical consumption and connoisseurship.

You can find Why Not Fest at whynotfest.tumblr.com or visit the blog on Prairie Goth and Listen to (Almost) Everyone Performing at Why Not Fest 8. And here's the Spotify playlist.

Topics touched on during this episode include analysis paralysis, heat death of the universe, the University of Minnesota in the Twin Cities, Ingmar Bergman, John Cage, intellectualism, Philip Glass' Solo Piano, Joanna Newsom's Ys, Arthur Schopenhauer, Furniture music (a term coined by Erik Satie in 1917), ambientKerosine, radio, Prince, Lady Gaga, audience size, artistic intention, curiosity, music as a geographic experience vs. a digital experience, the internet's effect on the music industry, the Minneapolis music scene, the Cedar Cultural Center, First Avenue & 7th St Entry, the Triple Rock Social Club, the Turf Club, Dan Deacon, Sidi Touré, Ballaké Sissoko, concerts, my eulogy, legacy, purpose, activism in art, politics, YOLO, touring, loneliness, my lack of pride, my pitch for my subscription services (Nora and the Janitors & Citizen Scientist), vinyl, physical products, the viability of live performance, leaving Bismarck, living in a van.


The following is an automatically-generated transcript. I apologize for how bad it is.

so when when the music's over you know if you had the presence of binder the foresight for God was just going when thinking about your music now what would you want the eulogy to be Jesus Christ [Music] hey what's up welcome to fairy god I wish I knew what to say after I said that I need like a like a little intro you know like like a thing that I did I say you know hi welcome to Prairie goth Oh I'm Nora the janitor I can say I could say that then what and I don't know fuck just another normal day living in the world trying to yeah trying to be in the in the moment and just say what I what I'm gonna say it's really easy to stand in front of a microphone and let my brain take over and just stop talking and and then I try I think about everything I'm gonna say and then I say it and then I and then I just get nervous and I just shut up and I sit in front of a microphone and just let the recording run and I don't say anything because I'm just sitting there - nervous - and then I I start analyzing all the different things I could say or what should I say and I don't know what I should say so so I'm trying I'm trying to just keep keep it rolling what should i hi welcome to Prairie goth I'm Nora - janitor fuck the president I could do that I could do that every single time for the next eight years probably fuck or I could do hi welcome to Prairie goth i'm nora the janitor the universe is expanding and one plausible end end scenario for the universe is that basically entropy is just gonna reach its how does that work reach its maximum I remember but basically like all of the all of the ability of all you know all the atoms and things to like change or do basically do anything is is gonna come down to zero like there will be no more ability for all of the the matter and energy to like move like all of the like it's just completely dissipated in it and then the name for this is heat death so yeah that's coming total heat death of the universe is coming I could say that hi welcome to Prairie goth I'm Nora the janitor total heat death is coming I don't know I don't know I don't I don't know I just don't know anymore but with that I want to give a shout out to why not fest why not Fest is coming up it'll be August 11th through the 13th Friday Saturday Sunday why not Fest is in Minot North Dakota and if you're in North Dakota you should come because it's it's the the best there's all sorts of different bands playing all sorts of different kinds of music from from all over the place you know a lot of people from inside the state but a whole bunch of people from from outside the state including like South Dakota I think Massachusetts Michigan what else what else I don't know but all sorts of good stuff and did I say this there's like 80 plus bands playing this year yeah and so I'm playing Friday at like 11:30 p.m. I believe I'm the last person at that venue at that day on that day and that's pretty cool I'm pretty sure kids with beards are playing right before me which is fucking sweet and then I'm gonna play I build it sort of as a acid techno Juke or footwork set it's gonna be me and like a drum machine slash slash synthesizer and it's it's not really any of those genres even though it's inspired by those it's just gonna be some good good good booty shakin music to end the night on so that's what I'm uh that's see I said slowly I start to stop talking and then I just get so I just I get like overcome with this like paralyzing nervousness oh it doesn't happen all the time but yep I just started to get terrified okay anyway why not fast you can learn more about it at why not fast dot tumblr.com it's ten dollars for a single day or 25 dollars for the whole weekend you got nothing going on that weekend you should 100% come hang out I'm getting stoked because I'm gonna do a bunch of interviews while I'm up there and I'm getting all that planned out yeah I'm really looking forward to it oh yeah also if you want to hear the bounds that are coming through I put together a blog post it's up on prairie guys calm and yeah so if you want to hear pretty much all of the bands that are playing that's a good way to do that or there's also a Spotify playlist that I linked to on there but there's only like a dozen ish bands from why not first that are actually on Spotify so it's not really effective but yeah it's there why not fest check it out I guess I can also put a link to that stuff in the show notes but yeah so there you go so today on the show the backstory to this is I have a friend named Jake who I met in college at the University of Minnesota he's really one of just like a couple people that I'm I'm still in touch with in like see on a regular basis from the people of the people that I met while I was going to university and as depressing as that time in my life was it would have been like just just the just the fucking worst if I hadn't if I hadn't met Jake and his friend Olivia and yeah so Jake Jake is a very special person in my life someone I love dearly and he and I and Olivia and a couple other people from Bismarck actually ended up living together our second year Jake is really a fast and and enigmatic is that the right word probably person and he is doing some graduate studies and has a class wherein he needed to produce a six to twelve minute podcast episode so he asked me to come and talk about music and and stuff and while he's making a short edit of our conversation I figured I'd put out the the full-length version on the podcast so we we do talk about music a bunch and and the internet and Jake kind of asked me to write my own eulogy and yeah it's it's really fun conversation partly because we like disagree so much which is fun so here's my conversation with Jake [Music] I'm gonna start with a question just about music in general it's not one that yeah I initially posed but sort of my artistic hero ignore Bergman who's a film director actually once asked an an own interview with him is what is music he seemed to go around and he asked fair amount of musicians this question and none of them seemed to none of them seem to understand it and none of them seem to have an answer so I guess I'll ask with that and I'll I'll I'll initiate with that maybe theoretical question of what is music sure where does it where does it come from well it's it's a good question because it's so open-ended like there's a lot that you could say about like what music is but at its most basic level music is just organized or intentional sound the intention also like might not exist at the moment of creation but it exists like after the fact if it's you know recorded sound my definition of music is incredibly broad ok so I don't think that like just you know people singing or people making instrumental music like I I think that's just like the surface of what music is and can be I mean it's really it's really any organized sound and ok you know and that's like a pretty I mean like that goes back to like John Cage and the you know in the 40s and sure and and before that that's my black most basic answer to that ok I think the reason I wanted to start off with that question is as someone who is not certainly not a musician I'll emphasize the knot there and who is maybe a novice or an amateur when it comes to the culture of music it's placed in position within our society I feel a bit of an outsider and looking in it seems like the music industry or musician ship in general is something that is kind of protective and a little bit inaccessible when it comes to talking about so I just really I guess yeah what do you what do you feel that way in terms of how I understand music it's on a very just on a very emotional level one of the reasons why I wrestle with my own interest is because there's a certain lack of intellectualism to it and yet when I hear people wait there's a certain lack of intellectualism to music I think so I experienced music as something that is you're listening to the wrong music then well that its core it it's cathartic for me it expresses emotion I don't think it's necessarily a format or a medium that does a good job of exchanging ideas and yeah I would you know disagree with that okay well and that's why I'm asking what what kind of music like when you're thinking of music that epitomizes like that feeling of like not intellectual but cathartic what music are you thinking I think maybe if I could cast out a name and a title of a piece of work that is for me kind of the epitome of what I think music kind of chief it would be Philip Glass's first solo piano masterpiece that I think was done in 88 I'm surprised yes I'm surprised that you don't think that's intellectual yeah III just don't I I know that I know that a lot of you know intelligence goes into the the theory and composition of musicianship and as someone who is not familiar with the history of music the function of music I don't know how to understand it I want to get that immediate perspective or relation from someone who who is a musician and who perhaps sees things a little bit differently why why is music such an allure what about its nature is such that so many people are so incredibly addicted to it and attained so much happiness feel fill me in a little bit more on why you think that that is well I don't know if I can answer that in like a universal way because everybody has their own relationship with music but answering that from like my own I guess personal perspective well like first happiness is the wrong word for me at least but like why do I turn to music I mean you know like okay so my my favorite record since I was probably 16 is ease by joanna newsom okay do you know that album not in the sense that I've listened to it it's okay in its entirety but I've heard music off of that album and in a larger sense I've seen her well I haven't seen her perform firsthand but I've I've watched performances of her sure knowing she's a harpist yeah yeah so ease it's ease as in the like the mythical city like why is that that album is like my favorite album for a whole bunch of different reasons but it's also something that has just like stuck with me in all sorts of day-to-day life moments and also like larger you know like adventures in my life like that there are certain parts of that album that you know like I can be like out walking in the woods and all of the sudden there's you know a verse from you know the first track Emily that will like pop into my head and you know completely change that that present moment in time for me and make me like reflect on what's going on so I think music like poetry and the two are really intertwined for me you know it is initially it's it's all about feelings and processing feelings which I do think is like an intellectual pursuit and for me and album like ia's has you know made me see life in a clearer way um it's also just like made me feel safe it's hard I mean maybe sometimes it brings me a certain happiness but so many of the themes of that album lyrically are about you know struggle and grief and things that aren't happy you know like I've listened to that album a lot and like cried or like I can think of a verse from it like on a random day and it'll just it'll just make me choked up so for me like the the height of my relationship with being a consumer of music rather than like a creator of music the height of the height of that relationship is this musical work that is so fully integrated into my life that it's like it's changed me on like a molecular level okay does that answer that at all I don't know I think so I guess one thing I have a very strong appreciation and respect for is the relationship that lets say consumers of art have with the artwork itself and how medium the media platform sort of functions so I spend a lot of time thinking about what's actually going on when somebody picks up a book what is the process you know that's happening there from start to finish and I think about that a lot with as I said literature I think about that a lot with film and with music it's it's difficult for me to understand exactly what's going on or to pinpoint what people are getting out of it the philosopher Schopenhauer once described reading as getting to play on or in the mental playground of another author not verbatim and his warning along those lines is that if you end up reading too much you kind of read yourself dumb you spend too too much of your time navigating the psychology of another individual rather than your own now when I think about music as ever mentioned the dominant kind of artistic force I think in our culture I think it might even be more powerful than film at this point I'm I really I really disagree with that I really don't think music is the dominant force cultural force agriculture what would you say is video yeah in all of its different forms okay well maybe maybe I spoke too soon and maybe I could argue for film itself but in a specific I guess in it may be a in a subtle manner I think music is more integrated into people's lifestyle into their daily digest than I think any other artistic Avenue is I think certainly as a medium I think film is the most powerful thing that's out there but music seems to be what is most addictive what's most highly consumed I also I'm not totally sure that's true like I mean think about like what wins elections its television and radio it's not music here's an idea that you that you might like I don't know if you've heard I don't know if you've heard of this before have you heard of the term furniture music no I have not what is furniture music have you heard the term ambient music that brings Brian Eno to the forefront of yeah mind yeah outside of that outside of that you know maybe you may be a good friend Cameron but nice so furniture music is an idea that dates back to what the late 1800s from a French composer named Eric SETI and ambient took a lot of cues from from this idea but the idea of furniture music in the late 1800s when when it was like a very radical new idea was that music could be integrated into a person's life much like furniture much like instead of it being something that you go to a concert hall and you sit down and you absorb it could be something that was just there all the time so said he was writing pieces that were meant to be almost like a backdrop like not something that you necessarily needed to completely focus on but it could just it could be there and it would like sort of affect you but you didn't have to put all of your focus on it so ambient music like like Brian Eno's you know very not his earlier stuff but his like the the ambient where it's like you know very long drawn-out notes like yeah music for airports music for airports to still have that cassette that I gave you yeah or or discrete music you know that there's a whole bunch of stuff he's still doing music like that and it's similar to furniture music in that it's or that idea of furniture music in that it's not necessarily supposed to be at the forefront of your attention but it will like you know I mean when I listen to you know his ambient work it like it improves my day even though I'm not really like paying attention to it like I might listen to Brian you know like while I'm at work you know and it doesn't take my attention away from anything but it just makes me feel better and I think that idea of furniture music is just incredibly pervasive in our culture I think the reverse is like much more rare now that people will just focus on on music and that's you know maybe that maybe you can't prove that either but like well let's talk about let's talk about that because I'll give you an example which is that okay especially and I you know I kind of get this vibe in mini apple - but where I'm from you know and I think broadly across the United States because of nationally syndicated radio that's like like top-down controlled like there aren't individual DJs choosing the music there's a playlist that is coming from like a corporate headquarters that will go out into all of these different radio stations so the way that people listen to music here is they will pick their radio station that they like and they will just leave it on repeat and they'll hear the same song maybe five times a day and is that what Prince was getting at in an interview I saw where he was discussing the gatekeepers of the music industry are those the corporate heads that are kind of controlling what's in what's out I know you you may not have seen this interview but it seems that that's exactly what he was criticizing and this was back I think in 1990 right yeah I'm sure that's part of what he was criticizing you know now that now that the internet is everywhere and anybody can get their music into people's phones directly through streaming services like Spotify now that that exists the distribution has changed and so like in a in a hypothetical way the gatekeepers aren't there but they but they really still are just because most people are not passionate enough curious enough to go and seek out music specifically for themselves and maybe that's fine you know I don't I don't mean to pass a judgement one way or the other on that just most people they're not consumers of music that want to sort through all of the things and and maybe don't have the same sort of like intellectual curiosity about that particular art form that say somebody like me would have yeah so here people listen to things on repeat a lot and they're not necessarily choosing specifically what they're hearing they just use it sort of as furniture and this is something that I've seen in from the time that I was like a child here up until present day okay and I think that's very common especially considering how many radio stations are run this way and like again I don't know whether to say that's a good thing or a bad thing I think in the past I would have just said yeah that's bullshit and it's bad it shouldn't be that way now I don't really know especially considering that there there are other options for people to choose from if they're like me and they're passionate about the art form but I mostly - just feel like people might be listening to music a lot and it might be integrated into people's lives in like a very deep way but sure it's not in an active way quite often and that's what I find is problematic I'll let you finish but I well when people are listening you know when people are reading books or watching a movie that's what they're doing you know that's they're they're absorbed by that process and it with music that's pretty I think that's pretty rare I I would agree and I think I'm going not to disagree with you on the outlook of how music functions in our cultural landscape but I don't think furniture music so to speak is popular in the slightest what I see is I see the the engagement on a micro level where if it's furniture music it's gonna be musical chairs where you you listen to a few songs of one thing and then you bounce to the next you bounce to the next and the duration and the the attention that is spent on music is so so rapid that it's I guess it's it's just indicative of this kind of very scattered integration that I think is what I'm maybe trying to point to I think that that's one of the reasons why I find myself less and less interested in it for me the healthiest and most enjoyable time I have with music is just listening to classical radio or listening to solo piano or an entire album and really really soaking it all in the way that you would with a film or that she would with a book but I don't think that most people have integrated it that way I think it's maybe I'm only being critical of a certain you know body in terms of the mainstream consumers and not not toward the people who have who have the patience and will have the curiosity to go out there and hunt and find good music and engage with it on maybe a deeper more respectable level I mean what are you what do you think because that it's it's truly one of the reasons why I am losing respect for music altogether even the most like mainstream pop music can be incredibly meaningful to the right people you take somebody like Lady gaga like I've never been a like a fan or really non fan of her I actually don't know that much about her work but it's never been something that has resonated with me enough to go like I need to go listen to Lady Gaga but I know how super important she is to a lot of people and you know maybe you wouldn't have that relationship with her as an artist either but that doesn't mean that other people aren't I feel I feel like you're probably just not listening to stuff that resonates with you because because it's it's out there you know you just you haven't found it I'm like the amount of like like art music like hyper intellectual stuff is pretty high you just gotta go find it and there's all sorts of different branches of what that could mean in terms of let's let's turn and let's talk about let's talk about your music if we've kind of drawn a loose spectrum between the stuff that's out there that has a lot of merit to it or that can maybe be appreciated on a on a wholesale level album from album versus the kind of micro engagement that some people have with pop music and what level do you want people to relate to your music as the artist or does it not does it not even matter I don't think I have a preference because because I'm some of the music I make is intentionally furniture music so I think I think it's great if people listen to it in in that light and if people are listening to it with like a closer ear I think that's awesome too I think I mean to be honest mostly I don't care because basically no one listens so it doesn't matter as long as someone is listening that's like a positive to me you know what do you what do you mean by what do you mean by nobody listens you feel like you don't you don't have the I don't really have an audience you know what I mean okay like I have I have I have some amount of an audience but like it's hard partly it's hard to gauge that and partly it's like audience compared to what like there are maybe 100 to 300 people that like listen to the stuff that I do time is that tightness that is that problematic for you or is that maybe a way of looking into the function of your own music I mean is it for is it for you or would you you know would you be disappointed to find that you know there are multitudes of people who are engaging and appreciating it I guess I ask this because there I think are artists and art forms that are intended to perhaps satisfy a smaller audience or perhaps just the artists themselves maybe we can talk a little bit about intention with your music and perhaps this has changed along the way yeah well it definitely has changed along the way I mean at this point I don't really even think about what the the end product is like I just think about the process as I'm doing it like am i discovering something and I like chasing my curiosity am I having fun even if it's like an incredible struggle and and that's part of why I push back on the idea that that music isn't an intellectual pursuit because when I'm working on it like for sure it is and I think I think that's really common amongst musicians you know the the difficulty of crafting something is constantly underestimated by people and like really shouldn't be when when I'm thinking about intention of like what I'm making I'm mostly thinking in terms of like what is what is a process that I can do that would be inspiring to me while I'm doing it there are there are certain things that I want to try to like attain like you know even on the most basic level like I want to be able to sing better but like the process of actually making the artwork like first comes from like am i am i interested in what I'm actually doing so yeah like my first instinct is to like follow my own curiosity but this question of like having an audience or not or having like or like what is the appropriate audience size for my own artwork like that question is something that artists like constantly face and and struggle with I think from any level whether it's somebody like me or somebody like hyper famous that still wants more fans and so I think everybody has different reasons and perspectives on that and but like this the struggle for people like me is like there's a certain madness to the idea of continually making things that like fall on deaf ears I wouldn't say that like my work falls on deaf ears but like I have specific goals you know I don't I don't want to have a job I just all I wanted to do is make music and I felt that way for for years and years and if you don't have an audience that that's pretty difficult you know like I I don't want a luxurious life by any means I I want a very life but because of mostly because of the way our economy is set up artists you know it's not designed to let artists do their thing right I recently ran into an artist to seem to be in a similar situation between the responsibilities that are usually entailed with maintaining yourself and his own musical aspirations and yeah another complaint that I have about music or another reason why I feel a growing sense of disillusionment and maybe lack of respect I think in I think in earlier decades music was sort of a geographic experience there were events there were locations there were bands that people flocked to on a national scale even there were record stores there were album releases there were mass tours the list goes on and on and I don't see that anywhere only in a shrinking sense of the world that I've been growing up in and I think aesthetically the idea or the connotation of exploring music purely online and discovering it purely online without any kind of physical or real-life engagement is to me just it's a little too alienating I think do you think that there's anything to be said there in terms of I mean I mean yeah I see I see your point and like the the Internet has changed things and all sorts of early bizarre ways but like you are you are the last person in a position to complain about that because you live in Minneapolis and if you want to like go physically find new and important music you're in an excellent place to do that I mean that's what I spent a huge chunk of my free time when I was they're doing I mean you have you have this cedar you have 7th Street for staff triple rock you know all of these other other places if you want to discover music in a real world way just go to stuff like you have that option like the cedar especially was just wildly helpful to me for that the music that they bring into their venue is is so diverse I mean you know everything from like Dan Deacon to like West African musicians in most instances like I could just go to the cedar and I would come away being like holy fuck I've never seen anything like that or just otherwise like very inspired by it like if you're if you're finding that problem because most of the things that you said you think don't exist like they exist you just got to go less unless people are supporting some of those things all the time and like the the music scene has changed because of the internet but in a lot of ways I think it's changed for the better and a lot of yeah a lot of those things that you want like they're they're they're I think I might be analogous to the kind of lazy pop driven consumer that this perhaps more the problem than the solution I think what what maybe has caused that or what maybe I'm pulling out here is that the internet for me is not attractive as a means of exploring my curiosity and uncovering good artistic experiences yeah well fuck the Internet you don't need it perhaps you know you're hitting me upside the head here the notion of just going to the Turf Club or the cedar or 1st Avenue on an impromptu kind of basis of discovering music as what I altogether would find appealing but I just don't think that that is how people are discovering music anymore these days or am I wrong am I just no idea I think I think there are people that are doing it that way but I'm not an expert on any of this shit so I can I can only guess but I know I know there's a certain amount of people that do that and in some ways it's inevitable because there's always like opening bands you know what's okay let's um we need to talk more about your music okay musicians are one of the categories of artists that seem to gain a lot of respect and a sort of solidified reputation after the matter or after the fact really I think so I think I think I think artists kind of get shit on in general like pretty much all media well I don't know if you need to think that that that seems to just be pretty much true but I mean after the matter in terms of once the once the career is over once the artist has died so to speak so if you could you know if you had the presence of mind or the foresight oh my god what is going contextually when thinking about your music now what would you want the eulogy to be Jesus Christ what what you know when when the music's over how do you want people to and I guess I'm I'm saying that I don't know where to jump in here if I should talk or if we should talk more about where your music is right now or if in a more encompassing sense how you want to be remembered as a musician from start to finish if there's a dominant kind of purpose or cause that yeah behind um I go ahead I don't give a shit about legacy who cares I'm gonna be dead you know that's you know there's there's no afterlife there's no benefit that I get from a legacy and frankly like all of what we know is like civilization as it is now like might be gone by the time that we're dead there there's a real chance that like the the internet and like music in the way that it exists now as a as a capitalist product like won't be a thing really partly because of like climate change and the way that the whole world is just gonna shift it there there's like a real chance that like anything that could be a legacy of mine will basically disappear and it could just disappear because like digital files are really hard to like keep alive from like corrupting and yeah yeah so there's like a really good chance for various reasons that even if I gave a shit about having a legacy I I wouldn't have one I really I just care about what's going on while I'm here I I don't have big hopes and dreams for my music to do anything that's really that really affects Society you know what like I like there are some musicians who are a little bit more like activist minded in the sense that they want their art to change the world and like I it that's not possible especially for me like that like there are things that I would like to see change in the world yes but if I were going to go try and change them I would get involved in politics I wouldn't be a musician and and this is something like I've thought about I've thought about giving up art to try and make actual changes but it just doesn't it just doesn't work with my psyche I think the best thing that that I can do with my music is try and let it be a tool for other like-minded people to use as a way to feel better about existing you know whether whether their feelings like safe will they listen to it or I mean like you know I think I can have one thing with with my music it would be what Joanna Newsom has given me like in the in the most like high-minded best possible outcome it would be that my music is a is a way for other people who are similarly minded you know politically etc using it as a tool to improve their own lives at the same time my music is just a tool for me to improve my life and that the selfishness of that is something I have had to grapple with like really hard like that's like like an honest struggle that I've had of like do I allow myself to be selfish like this you know what I want my music to do is allow me to make more music and allow me to travel and and meet people I mean that's what like what I want in my life mostly is like sort of this twofold like the quiet peace of making art and the wild adventures of traveling and meeting people and connecting emotionally with people who happen to be alive at the same time as me that's a that's a wonderful response perhaps I mean you can fill it up you can sum it all up in by saying just Yolo that's that's what it all comes down to that sentiment Noora really goes back to the initial question which is what is music to all of the people that have incorporated it to the heart to the core of their lives I think that is what people are seeking what do you think could change though in order to make that pursuit of yours or that goal of yours both as both as an artist as an individual so for you or in a selfish sense but also for for other artists out there and also for the consumers afford the audience what what changes do you think could be made within the landscape and the environment of how music functions that would bring about a closer bond or maybe even more sympathy or engagement between like-minded people I don't I don't know I mean I like the way that the the Internet is affecting the music industry I feel generally positive about it I like that we're moving into a post physical product industry I like that people who have a phone can just or a desktop can just go online and hear anything that I've ever done you know I mean I feel yeah I feel just generally positive about that and you feel like there's do you feel like there's intimacy there I mean you yeah sure totally I just don't know if there's a sense of awareness I mean is I think it's inherently intimate it's music it's inherently intimate I I agree with that I guess just reflecting upon my own situation I mean I guess I'm wondering you know are you even aware of when I happen to pull up your band camp or are you aware of one I happen to pull up your YouTube channel and experience that kind of nowhere yeah no I'm not I'm not aware of it but you can tell me you have my email address I have I have a podcast that's the other thing that's changing about artists is that that because of the way the internet works and allows you to reach people the artists that that most people love that aren't like super famous like are reachable like there right there like anybody who likes something that I do they can reach out to me they can they can tell me that if somebody buys something I see that immediately if somebody stream something I don't know who it is but if somebody buy something like from my website like I have their email address often I will like if something if it's a completely random person then I'll email them and be like thank you who are you and how did you find this that to me is like that's very intimate i okay I couldn't ask for something more intimate unless I'm going on tour sure okay I yeah I didn't know if that was if that was satisfactory or you know I can because I can easily see that situation and feel a sense of disconnect between a creator and audience one screen to another but perhaps the avenues of communication that are inherent in the Internet may be bridge the gap in a way that yeah I think I think they do I mean like I have a very small number of people that like listen to what I do but like there's people like some of it is like international like I have a I have a small like a very small group of people who listen to what I do like in the UK and like that blows my mind and there's like maybe three of them that like I know like on a semi personal basis what about well I guess I guess it the physic maybe where we I don't want to say disagree but maybe have different feelings about is the physical realm versus the plugged in or the online world in terms of connecting and communicating sure well yeah I mean I miss I miss going on tour I just I can't really work that into my life right now but when I move away from Bismarck probably the second thing that I'm gonna go gonna do is is go on to her like I've considered buying a van that I could live in and going on to her for like several years I mean yes it's definitely lonely having just the Internet like it it feels like no one cares often even though like I know people do it doesn't it doesn't feel like it and if I was and well frankly being out on tour often will give me the exact same feeling like going like nobody cares so the best thing I can do is just keep making what I think is interesting and eventually because I'm honestly really not proud of most of the work that I've done and at some point I'm hoping that I'll be a little bit more satisfied with my like abilities and creations and at that point hopefully there will be enough people who care that I could sustain something like living in a vehicle and turning around sort of constantly see and that's maybe a notch agha against the internet because you said you know you had mentioned I know nobody cares - nobody gives a shit I I can't I can't express the elation that came to me when I discovered that your YouTube channel was up yeah yeah and you know and that I had a means of listening to your music and you should listen you should listen on Spotify because it makes me more money well I don't even know what Spotify is okay like like I said I might be I might be the problem here and that I'm not engaged or I'm completely ignorant about how the how the the industry works online here I'll give you here's I hear another plug cuz you have a you have like a laptop or something right or no yeah my grandmother just recently bought me okay so do you know what Bandcamp is it's a website yes so have you visited either of my like three Bandcamp pages yes Nora and the janitors yes the one that I'm familiar with yeah so there's northern the janitors com there's there's my like weird experimental like type project thing called citizen scientist which the URL for that is city SCI CIT is CI dot space like outer space and then and then prairie goth also has a band camp the two music projects and I'm pitching right now both of them I have this thing set up where you can do like a subscription so for six dollars and sixty six cents for the whole year you're able to download like everything that I upload so like I've done like the as much as I can to make the like the bar as low as possible to like get people to try to like listen to what I do ya know if you need access six bucks a year and you can download all of it or a stream it like up an app check it out and do you think that do you think that things the status quo will ever swing more toward more toward my favor of things becoming popular again in the physical realm well vinyl you know vinyl is like the only physical I'm pretty sure it's the only physical medium that is sales guys go yeah this the sales are going up that's like the only physical media medium where the sales are going up like there's still a shit ton of CDs that are being sold but the number is dropping so the physical products are still like very much a thing but it's fucking expensive I still have four hundred copies of the split from 2013 or whatever that are on vinyl and they're never gonna get sold I'm still like two or three grand in the hole from that even after doing that Kickstarter I'm like 2 or 3 grand in the hole well let's let's let's I guess I'll refocus it in a more specific sense will there ever be a day where instead of getting you know instead of getting a subscription notification from you as a band oh I might get a notification that you're gonna go on a mini tour of the Midwest that's what I mean is live performance you know is live performance viable for people like you who are doing this thing all on their own or do you think that the avenue the best avenue really is the internet and really is the band camp and yeah the performance definitely as viable as long as as long as you have like a good like business plan frankly like yeah it's it's viable but it's often like only gonna you're only gonna break even you're not gonna make money off of taurine okay I I'm sure some people do it depends on the level of the popularity of the group or whatever I don't know you think you do better off with record sales or with like this subscription set up I don't know at this point um I like I I barely make any money at this point all I'm doing is like just trying different things and having it set up so I can learn about the different possibilities mm-hmm and I don't know we'll see what we'll see what works well Nora thank you yeah thank you off of the anyway we'll follow up to this I will work to be more more part of the solution unless the problem when it comes to this Nathan Avot navigated this I believe in you I can do it but we'll follow up I know you've got work I know your mornings start at 4:00 so that that's right this is your crucial this is your crucial time so I hope that our wasn't too good I'm gonna I'm actually gonna go have lunch right now have lunch we'll reconnect because we got to talk more about you getting out of this Park you mentioned that I don't know what I want to hear more about that so thank you for chatting with me this morning thanks Jake for letting me put this this conversation on the Internet I miss you and I hug you and thank you for listening I have to say I always feel bad when I get complaining about whether people listen to me or not and I know people are listening and so seriously thank you for listening and also just in general like my blessings totally outweigh my problems so yeah I'm very lucky and I know it and I'm trying to get better at being grateful so like sorry I sounded complaining and don't forget if you are in North Dakota come hang out why not fest 8 August 11th through the 13th got links in the show notes we would be awesome to see you there cool ok nice total heat death is coming for Jesus I'm Nora the janitor for Prairie god [Music] he prefers it to typing and particularly prefers it to the UN and paper and paper well should I just start rolling and see if I come by it Oh God so I guess thinking about it last night at like midnight over-caffeinated from hard times but not I thought well I thought Jupiter that's is that that's not a number is it yeah I think it's right on the top if you could sorry I'm just closing some of these browsers on my computer that aren't important but whatever look I'm sure on your on your blue dreams speech yellow red yeah ready nom fuckin Christ I promise